I'll try not to take the bait on your rant. You don't know me, or the actions I take on the issues I believe in. I'm sure the efforts I have made on many issues I believe in would easily meet your lofty standards. Again I think you just don't understand my points, but hey it's the internet. That's the way it goes. Keep it light.
I think the gates should come down, absolutely, 100%, no question, and I think with public awareness that can be accomplished, though nothing happens overnight. i don't think private individuals destroying gates is a solution, nor did I suggest as much. If a community decided to rally and take the gates out in their community, I would support that even if the companies involved cried fowl. People sometimes need to stand up for their rights, even when doing so is "illegal". They can't arrest the whole town.......that's how we get things done sometimes in a democracy. Without non-violent civic disobedience, we'd all be nowhere.
Anyways...... I do think pressure from the public will achieve this goal in time if the message gets out there. We should not look at the present situation as "just the way it is".......which is my point.
Anyways.....doubt you and I are gonna see eye-to-eye on this so just have a really great, non-angry, day! All the best with your beer and your meat.
Interesting points Hamhockracer. I by no means am going to go demolish a gate personally, but support greater awareness of the issue, which I think would benefit everyone in the 'wheelin' community. I don't really see how people who are trespassing, secretly, on "private land" to 4x4 have any moral authority over someone who might get mad and cut a lock. The land deals were, in my opinion, never fair to the people of this country and would not hold water if tested in a court of public opinion, though the present government has the back of the corporations who perpetuate the problem. As Hamhock pointed out, these lands were never "purchased" by Timberwest or WFP, they are just the latest round of land barons living off the mistakes of the past. Neither company could afford a fraction of the value of what they consider their "private property".
I hope I live to see these dirty deals undone. I do worry we are all just being too polite about it, as it is our Canadian nature to accept things as they are, and not ruffle feathers for the most part.
Some reading for those interested in the history of the "land grab". Not the greatest article, but generally I agree
In any other country but Canada, the USA included, those gates themselves would be demolished by citizens groups. On Vancouver Island, we are too respectful of what is really the result of a major crime committed decades and decades ago. When the Dunsmuir lands were "gifted" to the Dunsmuir family, in exchange for building the paltry E&N, they still thought the earth was flat, and the sun revolved around the earth. They had no idea of the scope or magnitude of what they were doing. Most involved in the deal would have had no idea of even the size of Vancouver Island. What happened isn't right, and should be looked upon with the same disgust that we view many historical blunders. The back country of Vancouver Island is a resource all Canadians should have access to. For sure, active Falling zones need to be respected, but everything else, at all other times, should be open to the public.
We need to stop bending over and taking it like good Canadians. It's bullshit, so we might as well call it as much. Just because it was "legal" a 100 years ago does not make it right in 2017, any more than slavery, internment camps, residential schools, or other things the lawyers approved of back in the day.
I have driven the road to the summit of Survey Mountain maybe 30 times as a contractor working for the CRD. The road is not at all challenging and is easily traversed in a 2WD PU (when not covered in snow), with the odd drainage cut being the biggest obstacle you might come across. They are working at getting the road 100% culverted by this winter. Nice view from the top, but if you never get there you ain't missing much, at least in terms of 4-wheeling. The road is maintained and improved as the years go on as it provides access to a CRD monitoring station (that you see on the summit on Goolge Earth). Security is high, with daily patrols, fences, locked gates, and cameras (including one watching the summit), so making your way in may be bad time. I have been on the road a couple times when trespassers on motorbikes or quads were spotted, and the road-channel radio crackles to life with a pretty serious effort to apprehend whomever it is. I wouldn't bother.
I'll try not to take the bait on your rant. You don't know me, or the actions I take on the issues I believe in. I'm sure the efforts I have made on many issues I believe in would easily meet your lofty standards. Again I think you just don't understand my points, but hey it's the internet. That's the way it goes. Keep it light.
I think the gates should come down, absolutely, 100%, no question, and I think with public awareness that can be accomplished, though nothing happens overnight. i don't think private individuals destroying gates is a solution, nor did I suggest as much. If a community decided to rally and take the gates out in their community, I would support that even if the companies involved cried fowl. People sometimes need to stand up for their rights, even when doing so is "illegal". They can't arrest the whole town.......that's how we get things done sometimes in a democracy. Without non-violent civic disobedience, we'd all be nowhere.
Anyways...... I do think pressure from the public will achieve this goal in time if the message gets out there. We should not look at the present situation as "just the way it is".......which is my point.
Anyways.....doubt you and I are gonna see eye-to-eye on this so just have a really great, non-angry, day! All the best with your beer and your meat.
Interesting points Hamhockracer. I by no means am going to go demolish a gate personally, but support greater awareness of the issue, which I think would benefit everyone in the 'wheelin' community. I don't really see how people who are trespassing, secretly, on "private land" to 4x4 have any moral authority over someone who might get mad and cut a lock. The land deals were, in my opinion, never fair to the people of this country and would not hold water if tested in a court of public opinion, though the present government has the back of the corporations who perpetuate the problem. As Hamhock pointed out, these lands were never "purchased" by Timberwest or WFP, they are just the latest round of land barons living off the mistakes of the past. Neither company could afford a fraction of the value of what they consider their "private property".
I hope I live to see these dirty deals undone. I do worry we are all just being too polite about it, as it is our Canadian nature to accept things as they are, and not ruffle feathers for the most part.
Some reading for those interested in the history of the "land grab". Not the greatest article, but generally I agree
https://dogwoodbc.ca/the-great-land-grab/
Happy wheeling all!
Think you need to re-read my post to understand what I'm getting at. Thanks for your input regardless.
They are not "private lands", they are "gifted lands", and the deal that gifted them no longer makes sense.
Down with the gates......as "moronic" as you might think it is, it's what should happen in a just society.
All the best!
In any other country but Canada, the USA included, those gates themselves would be demolished by citizens groups. On Vancouver Island, we are too respectful of what is really the result of a major crime committed decades and decades ago. When the Dunsmuir lands were "gifted" to the Dunsmuir family, in exchange for building the paltry E&N, they still thought the earth was flat, and the sun revolved around the earth. They had no idea of the scope or magnitude of what they were doing. Most involved in the deal would have had no idea of even the size of Vancouver Island. What happened isn't right, and should be looked upon with the same disgust that we view many historical blunders. The back country of Vancouver Island is a resource all Canadians should have access to. For sure, active Falling zones need to be respected, but everything else, at all other times, should be open to the public.
We need to stop bending over and taking it like good Canadians. It's bullshit, so we might as well call it as much. Just because it was "legal" a 100 years ago does not make it right in 2017, any more than slavery, internment camps, residential schools, or other things the lawyers approved of back in the day.
Down with the gates.
I have driven the road to the summit of Survey Mountain maybe 30 times as a contractor working for the CRD. The road is not at all challenging and is easily traversed in a 2WD PU (when not covered in snow), with the odd drainage cut being the biggest obstacle you might come across. They are working at getting the road 100% culverted by this winter. Nice view from the top, but if you never get there you ain't missing much, at least in terms of 4-wheeling. The road is maintained and improved as the years go on as it provides access to a CRD monitoring station (that you see on the summit on Goolge Earth). Security is high, with daily patrols, fences, locked gates, and cameras (including one watching the summit), so making your way in may be bad time. I have been on the road a couple times when trespassers on motorbikes or quads were spotted, and the road-channel radio crackles to life with a pretty serious effort to apprehend whomever it is. I wouldn't bother.